Bible Think Tank

This site is designed to help you interact with others about God's Word. I further some thoughts we developed during morning and evening gatherings at church. I have my NT translations from the original Greek to English. Also, I have book reviews and other current events.

Saturday, October 06, 2007

BFC-MC Emerging Church Follow-up

If you're wondering what we did at Ministerial Convention, lemme tell ya. I would love to tell you, but my good friend Tim Bertolet already did it. He and I attended together. He is the pastor at the Mount Pocono BFC.

Read Tim Bertolet's Thoughts on Dr. Franke's presentations.

So this is what I'm going to do... I'll read his 3 blog entries this coming week and then post any additional things I had to chip in here AND as a coment on his stuff. Fair? I guess.

It's October 17, 2007

OKAY, so I finally got around to it. Sorry, sorry, thousand apologies, sincerely. I meant to do this really for you and for me. So here it it: My Follow-Up Appointment with the Emerging Church.

If Solomon lived today he'd say "of the reading and writing of blogs, there is no end" (Ecclesiastes 12:12).

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Blogger delawaregirl said...

Hey Tim,
What's WCF Reformed stand for?

You know, Tim, your lovely wife and I talked a little about the Convention this weekend. I don't really see what's so controversial about it. Can you give me the bottom line on the controversy?

10/08/2007 8:45 PM  
Blogger Tim Bertolet said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

10/09/2007 2:30 PM  
Blogger Tim Bertolet said...

Different Tim here,

WCF= Westminster Confession of Faith.

10/09/2007 2:34 PM  
Blogger Timothy Schmoyer said...


The bottom line is the foundation for the postmodern church. Postmodern believe that foundational truthes are sketchy at best. Dr. Franke laid it out this way: Secular Postmoderns would say "the truth is, there is no Truth" (notice the caps). Postmodern Christians would differ and say "the truth is, there is Truth, but only God has it."

In other words Capital-T Truth is inscrutable because God IS the Truth just as He is Love. We have finite and sinful minds that cannot search the depths of Truth. So even when we arrive a a truth that certainly is True, it is lower-case since in our holding it, we still only scratch the surface of its full meaning.

He didn't say this at the conference, but I had him in seminary and he says it this way: "Postmoderns emphasize epistemological humility" That is to say they believe things but hold them so humbly that they would change if shown the truth.

How does this differ from the Modern Church? It's obvious: we know the Truth (and the Truth has set us free).

I'd prefer to be humble...

10/09/2007 11:22 PM  
Blogger Tim Bertolet said...


I'm all for being humble (I'm probably better at being for it than I am at always practicing it). Yet I think some in the emerging church [not all] confuse humility and conviction. Some think the two are antithetical. There are some things we need to hold to ardently even if it makes us look unhumble.

Obviously my first statement is a generalization, but my concern is: will the movement produce Christians like the Athanasius's,Irenaus's Owen's, Calvin's, Luther's and Machen's? Men known for what they stood for even when it was unpopular.

Here's a good quote from G.K. Chesterton:
""What we suffer from today is humility in the wrong place. Modesty has moved from the organ of ambition. Modesty has settled upon the organ of conviction; where it was never meant to be. A man was meant to be doubtful about himself, but undoubting about the truth; this has been exactly reversed. Nowadays the part of a man that a man does assert is exactly the part he ought not to assert—himself. The part he doubts is exactly the part he ought not to doubt—the Divine Reason . . . We are on the road to producing a race of men too mentally modest to believe in the multiplication table." (Orthodoxy, p. 31f.)"

What he labels for "modernity" I think applies equal to "postmodernity".

Epistomological humility should not become epistomological ambiguity. Franke did a good job with the humility. And he stood on some non-negotiables, but I don't see that always filtering down.

I think a better balance of conviction and humility can be found in Josh Harris's humble orthodoxy approach. See here. [which has a group blog from some solid guys].

I am also not to keen on the impulse to 'deconstruct' everything from some in the emerging church. Here's the thing, I think sometimes it plays out a youthful arrogance when it comes to our approach to history.

10/10/2007 11:23 AM  
Blogger delawaregirl said...

Thanks, Tim.

10/10/2007 11:31 AM  

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